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April 25, 2022

Flirt: Khan Date 2

Flirt: Khan Date 2

It's very easy for a date to feel like a performance. So how do you flirt without pretending to be someone you're not? This week, Khan delivers a master class in flirting virtually. "

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It's very easy for a date to feel like a performance. So how do you flirt without pretending to be someone you're not? This week, Khan delivers a master class in flirting virtually.


Khan: What's the first thing you notice about a person when you first meet them? What did you notice about me? That's a little forward! 

Ani: Okay. All right. Go ahead. 

Khan: I was struck by your hair and by your shirt, actually, your shirt is really, really beautiful.

Logan: Oh my god. These people are turned on. 

Hiwote: She seems really into it. I don't... Do you think he is, he's into it? 

Logan: So hard to judge. I mean, he could seduce a wall.

Jesse: Maybe that's how he practices.

Hiwote: This is dating a series of recorded first dates. Last time. 

Logan: The story in my head about Khan is that he's extremely seductive. He's good looking, but he's also very charming. I think he has a very people-pleasing personality where he can size you up, say this is what you want. He's very, very, very good at making people fall in love with him. And this goes back to his cultural history, right?

He grew up in this Muslim household and he wasn't supposed to be dating or having sex. And he was actually hiding how much sex he was having. And so his thing has always been, it's easy to find women that love him. The work for him is figuring out what he wants, who he is and what he wants to go after.

In the first date, the woman was very corporate. She was keeping the job interview vibes, but he said no. In general, I want people to go on more second dates, but for Khan saying no to that, to me was a sign of growth.

Jesse: This is dating. I'm Jesse Baker. Khan is hard to read when he's on a date. Not only is he a good dater, but he's an even better flirt. 

Logan: Hi, long time, no see. 

Khan: Yeah, how have you been?

Logan: I've been pretty good. Nice, nice to see your face. 

Khan: You look different, maybe It's just been that long. 

Logan: Oh yeah. Did I change? I don't know. Yeah, maybe I did. It's I definitely need a haircut. 

Jesse: That is him flirting with Logan, the behavioral scientist who was coaching him on these dates.

I think that he was, he wanted to go out with you Logan. 

Logan: I thought he was flirting. And I was like, why are you talking to me? I think he probably flirts with everyone. 

Jesse: He was turning his charm on you. Yeah. He was flirting with you, Logan. He even wrote you a poem. Here it is. 

Khan: So it goes, flood into me. I'll leave the levies low. Rage, young waters or flow. Placid with age. Either, I'll receive you knowing no other way. Flooded, silkless, self estranged. 

Jesse: Khan says the poem is about his tendency to take on other people's emotions. But yes, there are a lot of open bodies of water, moisture and various other euphemisms, we could read way too much into. 

Hiwote: You can read into this poem all day, Jesse. 

Jesse: Oh, Hiwote, I have, I definitely have. 

Hiwote: Okay. But the point is that Kahn is actually a really good dater. And the issue as Logan pointed out is that he has this pattern of going out with women because they're all wooed by his charm. And he even love bombs them, despite the fact that he's not into them. 

Jesse: Right. Now Khan needs to figure out what he wants, who he likes. 

Logan: There's a framework called the penthouse and basement person. And it basically is like, who in your life like brings up your energy, makes you feel excited. You have great conversations with them, that's your penthouse person. Who in your life, when you see them, do you feel de-energized worse about yourself, stressed out? That's your basement person. When you go on a date afterwards, you say was that closer to my penthouse person or a basement person and your ideal partner, the person you wind up with should make you feel similar to your penthouse person. So who, who is your penthouse person? 

Khan: Probably my brother. Just complete love, trust, honesty, fun, teasing, you know, the whole gambit.

Logan: Usually when I talk to people and I say like, what are you looking for? They tell me a list of stuff they're looking for. They don't say, I want to find a girlfriend who makes me feel the way my brother makes me feel, right. That's just not something that people think, but like, in a way that's part of it. Like you said, that you have a loving, trusting, honest, fun teasing relationship with your brother. Like, it sounds like that's closer to how you want to feel around someone. Does that resonate? 

Music: Yeah, that does. Yeah. 

Logan: Like what would it look like? And I know this would be a big change for you to show up on your next date as the Khan you are with your brother, as opposed to the Khan who figures out what somebody wants and gives it to them.

Khan: I'm gonna keep that in mind.

Hiwote: I don't love the language of basement person versus penthouse person, but I really, really like this concept because we all have people in our lives that make us feel amazing. And this framework just makes so much sense to me. But last time, my big assignment was to find someone who Khan could not love bomb.

And that was hard enough. But this time I had to, in addition to that, find someone that was going to make him feel like his brother makes him feel. 

Jesse: I love this. So how long did it take you to find Khan a match that makes him feel like his brother makes him feel? 

Hiwote: It took like three months and everyone that I talked to except for one woman was looking for a life partner. And if Khan heard that, I knew that he would fall into action and play that role. And then eventually, you know, want out. But this person that I found for him, Ani, she's just different. 

Jesse: Tell me a little about her. 

Hiwote: She's on this, like self-discovery journey, kind of like Khan and she knows that she is the whole cheese pizza. She doesn't need a relationship to fulfill her. And I love that. 

Jesse: Okay. So before the date starts, Logan is going to give Ani a little pep talk.

Logan: Hi, how are you feeling? 

Ani: Um, I'm feeling a little nervous. Um, but yeah, kind of curious. I think this is, this is going to be fun. 

Logan: What made you say yes to this? I'm so, I'm so excited that you're here. 

Ani: Yeah. I mean, I feel like I have a tendency to not try these sorts of things. And yeah, I mean, I guess it's just a priority for me now and I figure I'd should just be a little bit more open and á la Taylor swift say yes to more shit.

Hiwote: Okay. Sounds like Ani's ready. Let's get into this date. 

Jesse: I'm going to hide my video. Are we ready? We're going to let him in. 

Ani: Okay. I'm going to hide you guys. 

Jesse: Okay. Yes. Get rid of us. 

Ani: Okay. Ciao.

Jesse: Ciao. Bye. And here he comes.

Khan: How are you? 

Ani: Hey. Yeah, I'm good. How are you? 

Khan: Good. Good. Nice to meet you. 

Ani: Nice to meet you too.

Jesse: Khan is way chill tonight. It's like his cat died. I don't know where his usual energy is, but he's making me nervous. 

Hiwote: I know he always brings the energy, but it's like a Friday night after work. I totally understand why he's tired. Also, I kind of wonder if this is a good thing, cause his assignment was to just be himself.

Jesse: Right. But there's something to be said about first impressions. Let's just see where this goes.

Ani: I see like a guitar in the back. So music must be a thing. 

Khan: Yes. I'm not I know how to play like 10 songs, but I 

Ani: Hey, man that's 10 more than me.

Khan: Yeah, I really, really enjoy it. It's like a super cathartic kind of just quick, I just pick it up and just strum it immediately. Like the mood, it's a mood changer immediately, you know? 

Ani: That's super cool. 

Khan: Do you play any instruments? 

Ani: I played piano for a long time growing up, but I'd love to learn how to play the drums. So the ultimate vision is to play, I think like practice, like on a roof of some building in New York and just have this be like, like an epic, I had like this vision in my head, just like playing drums, like really cool.

And I think it might take some time to get there, but we'll start with like a drum pad, maybe. 

Khan: No, that's perfect. You said you grew up playing piano, so you actually like know music, like you can read music. 

Ani: Yeah. Not, I can't read music well, but my piano teacher was awesome. She wasn't like by the book, she was very like like learn by feeling? 

Khan: That's awesome. Yeah. I just gotta say, before we go on to this next question, because Logan is.... but I'm so jealous of you because you actually like, can you actually have a sense of music because I grew up playing drums and so I can read, yeah, so like, yeah. We're like switched. Like, can we just switch because I, I know how to, I know rhythm really well. Like when you are in the percussion section, whatever, and in like public school band, whatever. I really love music so much. I love singing. I love playing the guitar, but it's all like an act, you know what I mean? Like I don't actually. So you should feel grateful for actually having that. 

Ani: I was thinking that we should just start a band. That was where I was going.

Khan: I'm open, I'm open to collab.

Jesse: I'm sorry, but if he busts that with that guitar, it's over. 

Hiwote: Is it over for Ani or is it over for you, Jesse? Okay. Let's just send them a question. 

Khan: What's the first thing you notice about a person when you first meet them? What did you notice about me? That's a little forward! 

Ani: Okay. All right. Go ahead. 

Khan: I was struck by your hair and by your shirt, actually, your shirt is really, really beautiful.

Ani: Thank you. I really like it. It's one of my favorite sweaters. I appreciate that. I was actually struck by your hair too. Is that weird? I'm not copying you. Usually, and eyes. I think those are the two things that I usually notice first about someone. I happen to also notice your guitar. So that would... 

Khan: It's pretty prominent. It's kind of a little much, right. I should probably start zooming somewhere else. 

Ani: No, no, it's great. It's like a good convo starter. What is the first thing you normally notice about people when you meet them for the first time?

Khan: Let's see, it's hard, like over zoom, right? But like in person, I think. I, I think I tend to just read like overall body language pretty, pretty much first. Like how, how does this like body move in space or something like, there's this, I don't know how to, yeah. 

Ani: Yeah. It's like an energy or something. Yeah, yeah, for sure. I totally feel that. 

Jesse: This is exactly why calm is so confusing to me. Because you listen to them actively flirting with each other, but then in the same breath, I don't know if Khan means it, and if Khan is actually into Ani. 

Hiwote: Yeah. I kind of just want to push them to go a little deeper. Let's try this.

Ani: Okay. Do you want to read this next one?

Khan: What have you rebelled against in the past and what are you rebelling against now? Interesting. I feel like, so you grew up in India? 

Ani: Yeah, yeah. 

Khan: There must've been a lot to rebel against. 

Ani: Yeah, that's the crazy thing. I was like, I feel like there's just, this should be so easy for me, but no, like, I wasn't like a big "rebeller". I feel like my parents were pretty practical. They're like, I think there's maybe like a perception of Indian parents, and my parents are not like that. I feel like I've gotten, I've become more rebellious, like almost weirdly, like, as I've gotten older. I don't know though, if I'd call it rebellious. I'm like figuring out who I am, like in my own skin. So maybe like the thing that comes to mind is like, I have quite a few piercings in my ears, like not crazy amount, so I have like six and I don't think that was something that my parents were keen on.

I have like a few cartilage piercings and yeah, so I would say that's probably it, but I'm not like a super big, growing up at least, I wasn't a super big rebellious teenager. I was saucy though. I was a pretty sassy teenager. So, yeah. And what am I rebelling against now? There's maybe like an unspoken thing that like you're supposed to be at a certain point in your life.

Like, I don't like the pressure of having to do certain things just because. Like getting married, having a kid, buying a house. That's been maybe something I've struggled with more on a personal level. 

Khan: Yeah, absolutely, no, a hundred percent, that resonates for sure. I didn't think about, I didn't think about that, but I would agree that that's one way in which you could say that I'm rebelling, but it's not like, you know, that word is it, you know, it's not like I'm trying to be a rebel.

It's just, maybe it's just this non, not conforming. You know to what maybe certain expectations are out there. So, yeah, that, that's true for me too. And but you know what I think on that at least, I think like a lot of people are just rethinking relationships and what we've been told about relationships and how they are supposed to work.

And growing up, I did not have your experience. My parents were not chill at all. They were super not chill and I had to sneak out of my house, lie about my phone bill and all that stuff. 

Ani: Yeah. Hey, man, you got to do what you gotta do, 

Khan: I guess so, yeah.

Jesse: Wait, hang on. Logan's calling me, 

Logan: look at her face. She's like, yeah, she's into it. Oh my god. These people are turned on. 

Hiwote: She seems really into it. I don't... Do you think he is, he's into it? 

Logan: So hard to judge They're both touching themselves. She was touching her ear and he just rubbed his neck. 

Jesse: What does that mean Logan? Tell us. 

Logan: I think, I mean, I think when you touch yourself, you're feeling physical and into your body, but also if they mirror each other's body language, then that's a good sign of liking each other. I haven't seen them do that yet, but it's hard. He flirts with everyone, but it seems like they're flirting.

Khan: Okay, we got another question. 

Ani: Okay. Your turn. Or, is it my turn? I'll go, I'll go.. How have you changed the most over the last year or two? 

Khan: Hmm. I guess for me, I right before that window was kind of my last relationship. And it was a relationship that I ended because I realized that I was like, still replicating a pattern, which was like, just like co-dependency stuff, like showing up to a relationship, kind of like, as if I like needed that relationship, I needed that person in order to like, fill some like whole, some gap or whatever.

And so just created this kind of like, you know, dependency thing that was not really healthy or like genuine. I guess, like I can tell you a little story that kind of sums all this up. Basically like broke up with my girlfriend. And then a few months later, I ran into her at like a club. It was like one of our mutual friend's birthday parties. I was just back on the dance floor. And I think one of my friends saw me and she saw that I was just totally motionless. So she was like, what's wrong, you know? And we're like right by the speaker. So we're screaming, and I was like oh, you know, I just ran into my ex whatever, whatever. And she was like, you gotta know you're the whole cheese pizza.

And I'm like what? And she's like, you're the what?? I was like, you're drunk. And she was like, you're the whole cheese pizza. And then she was like, other people can be your toppings and enhance you, but you're the whole cheese pizza on your own stop acting like other people can be like, stop trying to make other people be slices in between.

Ani: She is so perceptive, what a great friend. 

Khan: Yeah, she's awesome. And it's one thing to like, know you're the whole cheese pizza, but it's another thing to like, really like manifest that. And so where I ended up coming out was if I just do certain things every day in my day, for me that I need to like take care of me.

Maybe like down the road eventually, like it's not any sort of like threshold point, but I'll just be at a better baseline. Cause I'll be like doing the things that I need to do to like, be really healthy for myself. So. So those things are sweat, breathe, write. I have a tattoo of it. I like put in my arms, so I would never forget. And I try to like exercise and meditate and write every day. And that's really been a game changer.

Ani: Wow. That's huge. I feel like that's, that's a big, that's like a big shift, for you maybe. 

Khan: No, absolutely. That's totally. 

Ani: That's awesome. Oh gosh. I think the biggest one for me has been like self-confidence and like just kindness to myself. I didn't realize how hard I was on myself. I think what I've realized is, you know, it's like, this is my life, how do I want to live it? Do I want to be nice to myself or do I not? And the answer is like, I want to be nice to myself. The days add up, you know what I mean? Into years and the years add up into decades and it's like, you can live your life, just being super hard on yourself and you would never talk like that to other people that you care about. You know? 

Khan: That's really cool. I'm happy to hear that. 

Ani: Thanks. Yeah.

Hiwote: Okay. So I don't love that the cheese pizza story came up again, but I just, I think kind of showing up in such a different way on the state, he just feels really present and engaged. 

Jesse: I agree. I it's like we're not listening in on a performance. We're listening into something that feels like a connection. I think that they are ready for that final question.

Ani: Oh, okay. Say something that scares you.

Khan: I think you're a really beautiful person. 

Ani: Oh, thanks. Wow. That was so nice of you to say. 

Khan: I can tell over zoom, even though I can't see the body and motion, I can tell the energy. 

Ani: Wow. That was so cool. I thank you. I was going to say like your soul seems, just like, this is so weird, your soul feels like positive, like positive vibes. You know what I mean? Like the way that you operate you can tell you're like good people. I wouldn't, yeah, I would never say something like that on a first date.

Khan: Cool. Thank you. That's nice to hear.

Hiwote: Oh my God. 

Jesse: What is happening here? Whoa! 

Hiwote: Are you listening to this? Oh my god. That is so cute.

Logan: Wait, when did she say?

Hiwote: She said your soul feel like something I know before, or like she said something along those lines. 

Logan: Our little flirty babies. We should end it stand like on a high note.

Hiwote: I mean, that was the last question. 

Ani: I guess we should talk, we should talk again soon. 

Khan: Well, you better come back to New York. 

Ani: Yeah, well, that's the plan. So, where in Manhattan are you? So I was in the west village and so I give my Brooklyn friends shit but there's nothing wrong with Brooklyn, it's great. 

Khan: The fact that you even said that suggests otherwise. That's suspect. Okay. Sounds like you haven't spent enough time at Brooklyn that's what it sounds like. 

Ani: Yeah. That's fair. That's fair. I haven't.

Khan: I'll show you some things. 

Ani: That sounds good. 

Khan: Cool. 

Ani: Okay. I'll see you later. 

Khan: Bye.

Music: Oh, hello.

Khan: Hi. 

Logan: Hi you little flirt. How was that? 

Khan: That was so fun. She's so cool..

Logan: Yay. Was it a good match? 

Khan: I think so. Yeah, she's got really good energy. 

Logan: Great. 

Khan: Good job guys. 

Logan: Yay. Go team. We couldn't tell in the beginning, if you were feeling it. Kind of walk me through your experience of the, of the hour. 

Khan: I guess I was like tired, like coming in. And so maybe that, maybe I was like, just like taking a little bit more time to kind of feel my way out around and stuff. But yeah, it's just like a lot of her responses were just really interesting and felt like we were speaking similar languages. You know what I mean? 

Logan: Was there a moment where you, she really stood out to you or you were like, I'm really into her vibe?

Like, was there anything in particular she said that resonated? 

Khan: Just, I guess just the way she answered, a lot of, a lot of the questions was just, humble thoughtful, open she's into meditation that was really quite important to me to, to hear her talk about like that growth that . She's gone through in the last couple of years.

Logan: I have these questions in my book, the post date eight questions you're supposed to ask yourself after a date. I'm going to pull it out. Okay. What side of me did they bring out? 

Khan: I think my heart side. I think my heart, like just the emotional kind of like, body or whatever, you know, my emotional side.

Logan: How did my body feel during the date stiff, relaxed or something in between? 

Khan: Probably something in between. Cause I think I was like a little excited, so I was kinda like leaning in and like looking closer. 

Logan: Do I feel more energized or de-energized than I did before the date?

Khan: Definitely more energized.

Logan: Is there something about her I'm curious about?

Khan: I want to look more closely at these six piercings. 

Logan: At these what? 

Khan: Six piercings. She was like, here's my ears, but I couldn't see. I was just curious.

Logan: Did she make you laugh? 

Khan: Yeah, I think so. 

Music: Yeah, we did laugh. 

Logan: Yeah, you guys had some good laughs. Did I feel heard? 

Khan: For sure. 

Logan: Did I feel attractive in their presence? 

Khan: Yeah, especially, when you forced us to say scary at the end. 

Logan: And then you were like, I think you're a beautiful person. I was like, mic drop. And the last one is, did I feel captivated bored or something in between? 

Khan: Captivated is pretty strong, but you know, like towards that, yeah. 

Logan: Cool. I mean, all, all signs point to, you had a long week, I appreciate that you showed up, but it sounds like you were tired. And I think by the end, like she brought you to a very present, happy, energized place. And, and that's, that's awesome for a Friday night zoom. 

Khan: Totally. 

Logan: Bye. 

Khan: Goodnight, have a good weekend.